I Was Amazed Obasanjo Asked Buhari To Negotiate With Kanu –clarke, SAN - Gossip Transporters

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Saturday, 23 September 2017

I Was Amazed Obasanjo Asked Buhari To Negotiate With Kanu –clarke, SAN


During the administration of former President Goodluck Jonathan, the leader of the Indigenous People of Biafra, Nnamdi Kanu, preached the unity of Nigeria. But now that President Muhammadu Buhari, a northerner, is in charge, he’s preaching secession. Can we say the agitation of such a person is genuine?

Let me be honest with you: No agitation in Nigeria, whether from the South, West or North, is genuine. None is genuine and let’s be honest about that. They all have political connotations. They sing one tune when politically, their allies are in power, then they sing another tune when those they construe as their opponents are in power. Take a classic example of IPOB. During Jonathan’s regime, it stood for the unity of Nigeria; it believed that the Biafra it was asking for was to be part of the country. It believed that the Igbo were being marginalised, even though during Jonathan’s regime, the Igbo could not fully claim they were being marginalised. Now, the new Kanu we see today is a Kanu who is fighting for the creation of the Republic of Biafra, which is a U-turn from who he was about five years ago. In fact, what he’s now demanding, by any legal ramification, is treasonable. Nigeria’s unity is not negotiable by any tribe in the country.

Nigeria was created either by the act of a human being or by that of God. I listened to a gentleman on Channels TV last Sunday and he said the problem with Nigeria was that the country was created by the colonial government to fail. I don’t believe in that. When you look at developed countries all over the world today, they experienced what we are experiencing today. As I’m speaking today, there is nothing united about the United Kingdom. They have been in existence for over 300 years, but even at that, the Scottish man does not like an English man. Likewise, the Irish man does not like the English man. They are just staying together and they have been doing that peacefully. Look at the United States of America; today, there are over 500 nationalities making up the country, but they have always displayed their patriotism despite their differences. Therefore, Nigeria was never designed to be a failure; it is the people who have made it impossible to work. And what are the problems? The two basic problems of Nigeria are ethnicity and religion and these two elements are being used by politicians to gain power. When IPOB started, I had so many Igbo friends, some professors, some lawyers and so on.

 They all loved what Kanu was doing. The politicians loved to be associated with him because he had the following of the youths, whose votes they needed. But now that the tune is changing and the governors found out that if the situation continued, a state of emergency might be declared in their states, they knew they could become redundant and now they are fighting Kanu, dissociating themselves from him. My thinking is this: We cannot allow any part of Nigeria to preach secession. In our own generation, when I was in my 20s or 30s, I saw what happened during the first Biafra and no reasonable Igbo man should be asking for secession again. Up till now, the Igbo have a great stance in the society; they are a very dominant tribe. You cannot go to any local government in Nigeria today and not see the work of an Igbo man. If they had tried Biafra and failed in the 60s, I don’t see why any other tribe in Nigeria would try it and succeed. So, secession is a phenomenon that we must all forget and we should encourage Buhari to fight it with all constitutional means in his power.

Last Friday, the Defence Headquarters declared IPOB as a terrorist organisation, though it later came out to say it wasn’t a declaration. In a democratic dispensation, does the military have any power to declare an agitated group a terrorist organisation without the assent of the National Assembly?

Even though I am not holding brief for the military, I must say this: The best brains in Nigeria are in the military. Check it from any person. If a soldier has undertaken all military training and risen to the rank of a colonel, please respect his brain. So when they pronounced that IPOB was a terrorist organisation, they were giving an opinion, because they too know, as they have a legal department, that they cannot just come out overnight and declare a group a terrorist organisation. They gave an opinion which you and I can also give. What they said is not the law and I’m happy the Chief of Army Staff [Lt. Gen. Tukur Buratai] came out on Monday to say that they were not making a law, but they were saying that as a military organisation, they considered IPOB a terrorist organisation. They are entitled to their views because, through intelligence, they know exactly what is happening in this country more than you and I. I was privileged as the only Nigerian to lead a group of lawyers in fighting the Lebanese Hezbollah terrorism and my group was able to discharge the claim that the group was a terrorist organisation. Why? It was because the law says that to declare a group a terrorist organisation, it must be gazetted, it must pass through a process. So when I was defending the Lebanese, I said, ‘Look, you cannot bring up terrorism charges because this organisation has yet to be declared by law as a terrorist group. There is no gazette.’ That was how we threw the case away. In Nigeria today, the only group that is a terrorist organisation is the Boko Haram and the Nigerian military also knows that it cannot create laws, but it, however, has a right to its opinion. Every Nigerian today can confirm that there is trouble in the South-East as it is in the North-East, except if we don’t want to be truthful. In 2004, I represented former Governor Ali Modu Sheriff of Borno State to defend his mandate. I stayed in Maiduguri, the state capital, for three months and I could go to night clubs, there was no restriction during the whole period. Then I saw how Boko Haram started as a group of young boys. The group started just like IPOB and because nobody did anything, it became what it is today — an international terrorist organisation. So to be honest, the military doesn’t have any right to declare any organisation a terrorist one and I’m very happy that it has rescinded any impression that might have been created. But like I said, the military of Nigeria today, just as the police, has the best brains and training. When it speaks we should not think it is naive.

But do they have the right to invade any place in the country for training exercises just like they did in the South-East and are now planning to do in the South-West and South-South, especially as it is believed that it is the work of the police to address issues of internal security?

You see, there is a wrong impression that has been created by some lawyers about the duties of the military. Do you see what is happening in South Korea today? Do you see what they call the joint exercise by the South Korean military? They are preparing just in case there is an attack. The military has the right to do military exercises anytime, especially if there is an imminent or expected danger. It is part of its duties during peaceful times to go into places it deems fit and practise so that it can know how to respond should something happen. What the Nigerian military is doing is done by other militaries all over the world. It would be stupid for any military, knowing that there are flashpoints in some parts of the country, not to make any preparation to avert serious problems. I’m not holding brief for the military, but in going to Abia State, it went there because the South-East was a flashpoint. It is a fact we must all accept. There was a time bomb there and it could explode anytime and no military in the world, which has the duty of maintaining the security of the country, will have this kind of knowledge and not start practising if the unexpected occurs. So, it didn’t invade the South-East; the word “invasion” is wrong. It once did similar thing in Ikorodu, Lagos State, when some boys were terrorising the residents. The Lagos State Government didn’t complain. The military has always done that to fish out people causing security problems. So, we are not seeing anything new. What is new is that a particular strong group of a particular tribe in Nigeria is making noise about it. Again, the military has the right to do exercises in any part of Nigeria. If during the course of their exercises, it discovers a situation on the ground, it also has the right to say its opinion.

This means that when the Senate President, Dr. Bukola Saraki, came out to say that the process of tagging IPOB as a terrorist organisation was unconstitutional, he was saying what was correct, right?

What he said was the obvious truth. Even the military officers know this. Many of those top military officers are more knowledgeable than him, so Saraki is not saying anything new. But what I fault him for is that knowing that IPOB is a set of people causing problem in this country, should he be concerned with what the military did or what Kanu was doing? What should concern him more is what the South-East governors did by proscribing the group because they did not want to see the situation escalate. By his statement, he was escalating the whole issue and this was unbecoming of a Senate President. Ask yourself: which is more capable of causing crisis in this country — the military’s statement or Kanu’s actions? Saraki ought to tune his mind and support the governors and the military.

Can the National Assembly then de-proscribe IPOB?

Definitely! There is a process in the constitution on how to proscribe or de-proscribe a group. When an organisation’s name is gazetted and the law regards it as a terrorist organisation, the National Assembly can then de-proscribe.

Last Sunday, the Minister of Information and Culture, Alhaji Lai Mohammed, said he believed some people opposed to Buhari’s government were behind IPOB, but he didn’t give any name. Can we describe such a statement as vague?

I don’t want to hold brief for Mohammed. I wouldn’t want to fault his statement because as a Minister of Information, he must have got access to some information which I don’t have access to. I wouldn’t want to say what he said was correct or wrong. He looked at it from his own angle. In fact, I also believe there are people behind all these agitations. As I told you before, I saw how Boko Haram started with some ragamuffins. The whole IPOB thing too is being backed by some politicians who want to contest elections and think they need these youths to vote for them. Some people are behind it.

If the Federal Government has always engaged in dialogue with a terrorist group like Boko Haram, don’t you think it is hypocritical of the government not to have also done same thing with IPOB?

We lawyers believe that before you make any pronouncement, you must know the facts. Boko Haram is an insurgent group, destroying churches, mosques, schools and police stations – that is their modus operandi. Biafra is a different thing. Its members are saying they don’t want to be part of Nigeria, so there is a difference between the two. You can negotiate with terrorists and get them out of their ideology, but no government will go and negotiate with people who want to secede. I was amazed that my good friend, [former President Olusegun] Obasanjo, asked Buhari to have a dialogue with Kanu. I am very sorry that he made that statement because I have the greatest respect for him.
We have been friends from youth and I adore his intellect in keeping Nigeria together, but I refuse to accept that statement from him because what IPOB stands for is the destruction of Nigeria’s unity. What do you want to negotiate with such a group? By negotiating with Boko Haram, you can tell them to release the citizens they are holding as hostages while you also release their members. However, on what terms will you negotiate with IPOB? By doing so, you are giving them an inflated idea of their importance. Once the government makes that mistake, the group will feel pompous. Why should we talk to a group of rascals who say they want to leave Nigeria when their own governors have even proscribed them? Why should Obasanjo say we should talk to them?

So Obasanjo is wrong, Buhari shouldn’t negotiate with IPOB?

I’m not saying he’s wrong, that’s his own opinion. As a former President, he has access to much information which I don’t have, which might have made him to make the statement.

Successive governments in Nigeria have had to contend with agitation from different groups, especially from the region where the President is not from. For instance, when late Musa Yar’adua was the President, he had the Niger Delta militants to contend with; Jonathan, Boko Haram; and now, President Buhari is contending with IPOB. What is the real problem with Nigeria?

Somebody asked me this question 10 minutes before this interview started. When Obasanjo was the President for eight years, whether you want to believe it or not, he made sure that the power the North had been holding onto since the military regime was incapacitated. It is a known secret that his action would take the northern elite another 25 years to get back to that place. Saying this, I must repeat it again that ethnicity and religion are our problems and the main factors responsible for corruption as the President in charge would want to appoint his kinsmen to positions. Every time someone is in power, the other two main tribes will complain about it and this often leads to agitations by the other tribes.

In Nigeria today, apart from IPOB, there are so many groups springing up here and there with various agitations. It is believed that this is so because of the failure of the political class to unite this country. What should the country be doing to curb this phenomenon?

In 1999, Nigeria’s constitution gave us what they call democracy. I am of the firm belief that we are not a democracy, even though; we have been running a so-called democratic constitution. Even though we are being governed by civilians as against the military, we have yet to practice democracy. What make democracy survive are the institutions that are used to promote it. We must have a strong judiciary, a strong and independent police force and a strong military. There are establishments that make democracy work and we don’t have them in Nigeria. The institutions have been hijacked because of the type of political system we run. When you have a constitution that gives the governor of a state absolute power to control finance, determine who gets a contract and so on, that’s not democracy. If you have a situation where the President is the Alpha and Omega and where you have a constitution that states in Section 5 that all executive powers belong to the President, then that is not democracy. Our politicians are happy with the status quo of the 1999 Constitution, which I regard as a rotten egg and there is nothing we can build on it. Some people are saying that the confab report is there, but just as the Yoruba do say, “Odo n gbodo ru” (meaning, you cannot build something on nothing). So unless we restructure Nigeria to change the system of governance, we cannot become a successful country. The politicians are taking advantage of all these things because they now use them to make money for themselves. That’s why now you find disgruntlement in every part of the country. The youth are restless. It’s not only in the South-East. It’s in the North, the West and the Middle Belt; all of our youths are restless. Something has to be done

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